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[canuck 1]

Spray foam is your friend and is fairly cheap here(around 500 for a cargo). Lots of vented heater options as well

[Camper_Dan]

The problem with any non factory insulation/ventilation scheme, is that the insulation does not prevent condensation or prevent/limit moisture build up.  Improper insulation (99.9999% of  all van insulation installs) serve only to hide and trap condensation and moisture.  You will still get condensation on the inside of the metal, between the metal and the insulation.

Moisture either has to be wicked to the interior where it can be evaporated out, or ventilation is needed to the outside skin to prevent moisture build up.

If you ask an insulation saleman what you need, they will always convince you that  you need insulation.  If you ask somebody with  little to no experience, they are likely to repeat what they heard from the insulation salesmen.  If you ask somebody with experience and nothing to gain, the answers are likely to be different.

It's not that a proper insulation can't be done, it can, but all these schemes I see are only to sell insulation, not do a proper installation, with the proper materials.  Too many people equate what works in a house to a vehicle, when the two have so little in common.  While I might sometimes sound anti insulation, what I actually am is anti commercialism, and against people doing something they'll later regret, all because somebody else wanted to make some money.

Cheers!

[canuck 1]

Sorry Bob but you are wrong, closed cell spray foam does provide a vapor barrier and will not allow moisture to accumulate between it and the metal body of the van. It will also keep condensation from forming on the exterior skin of the van and make the van easier to heat/cool. Never had a van rust in the last 40 years in a climate that is way more severe than what you are use to. And no, I do not sell it, just use it

[Camper_Dan]

All I can tell you is that I have been involved in several van remodels due to moldy, mildewy smells.  The  ones that had been spray foamed, one just a year earlier, we scraped the spray foam off clear to the skin.  The skins of all of them were rusty on the inside, and the spray foam was riddled with black mold.

While theoretically a vapor barrier can prevent the interior moisture from getting to the skin, nothing will prevent the condensation from occuring and then becoming trapped unless you could possibly somehow vacuum seal the interior skin.  Spray foam has air in it, and bubbles of that air are trapped against the van skin.  All of our air contains moisture, and as long as there is a single speck of air, condensation will occur.  Many many people have tried and failed at preventing this condensation from occuring.

If you have truthfully found a way to prevent condensation in a van and can prove it, THAT IS BIG NEWS!  You will become both rich and famous overnight.

Hiding condensation and/or trapping it is easy, and that is most likely what you have accomplished.  PROVE ME WRONG - PLEASE!  We need more solutions that actually work long term.  I can't find any examples of anyone who has used spray foam and still been happy with it years later.  All the people bragging about it have had it for days or weeks, not years.  It's been around for 30+ years, surely if it is as good as you claim, somebody would be saying how great it has been for 20 or so years in a van.  Instead, everything seems to be riddled with mold.  Many conversion vans used spray foam, and today many of them are rusty and moldy. 

My 1992 Ford E-250 conversion van had spray foam insulation.  Once I removed all the stinky air fresheners it came with, you could smell that damp musty smell.  When I removed a panel and discovered it was spray foam insulation, I took it to a remediator, who used an ozone generator I believe, to kill off all the mold and the smell.  It worked, cost me $350, but the remediator told me it would reoccur so I sold it before converting it into a full fledged camper.  I think it was about 6 years old at the time.  I bought it in Florida if that makes any difference.  The environment shouldn't make a difference though, because a successful solution has to work in all environments.

Are you saying that you had your van spray foamed 40 years ago and there are no signs of rust, moisture, mold, or mildew inside?  If that's true it should be very easy to document.  If it is true, you also need to document what type of spray foam was used, because there are many varieties.  This is monumental if it's true!

Dan

[canuck 1]

Well Bob you can rant and rave all you want but you as usual are chirping about stuff that you know little to nothing about. You are full of shit

Closed cell spray foam..... not open cell...

Your 1992 van mold story is BS....

Put a plastic bag over your head while sleeping tonight...see if moisture can get through the plastic

I came here to get ideas for a new build and all I see are camper boob and his BS rants...

[Camper_Dan]

So you don't like my advice, but you can't prove a thing you're saying, or prove me wrong...  You do whatever you want to do, and when you fail, maybe you'll understand better. 

I'm currently sitting in a comfortable 74f van while it's -20f outside and the wind is howling.  I obviously don't know what I'm doing...  Obviously Bob whoever he is and wherever he is knows  a lot more than you do too.  Listen to experience, you might just learn something.  There's are reasons that most people fail miserably at vandwelling, and the most common reason is improper builds and lack of good equipment. 

I'm here to help people.  Nobody is forcing anybody to listen to my advice or to follow it, but those who do follow it are thankful for it.  If I can help 10 people, while 100 other people think I'm nuts, that's 10 more people than you've helped, and I'm perfectly happy with that.  It's about who you can help, not about who want's to argue for the sake of arguing.  Come back with facts instead of BS and we can calmly discuss whatever you want.

Dan

[Camper_Dan]

While I know for sure my experiences are 100% accurate, I strive to always make sure I am posting the most accurate information possible.  To this end, I fired off an email to a friend who is a moderator on a different forum.  Here is his reply:

> Greetings!
>
> I'm getting a lot of heat about my stance on insulating a camper van
> on another forum.  My advice is a passenger van, and not to add
> any additional insulation, but to keep the interior stock.
> The insulation discussion is at:
> http://vandogtraveller.com/forum/van-conversion/insulation-stuck-at-the-first-hurdle!/
>
> Am I wrong?
>
> Cheers!
>
> Dan

Danny,

No, you are absolutely correct.  There is no debate among those with more experience, unless of course money is somehow involved.  If money is involved, all bets are off.  As you know, many so called experts give really crappy advice for the sake of making money.  The vandwelling community is chock full of scammers, and they will do anything to discredit good advice if it doesn't benefit them.

Danny, I've known you for many years, and anybody trying to discredit you is a fool or a troll.  The facts should speak for themselves no matter who is posting them.  You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.  All we can do is to keep giving people good and honest answers.  The scammers and their followers greatly outnumber the knowledgeable, and I see more and more of the good guys just dropping out because of all the bullshit.  Hang in there, we need more people like you, not less.

Here's the facts I post whenever the subject comes up, they are undisputable, and nobody disputing them can back up their claims.

A) Heat does not require insulation.
B) Insulation does require heat.
C) Insulation does not stop condensation.
D) Insulation can trap condensation.
E) Ventilation is more important than insulation.

Therefore heat and ventilation are required, insulation is optional, not optimal.

Sure glad I'm in San Diego and not MN right now.  Was happy to read you're staying warm, haven't even needed heat here.  Sure glad I work online.

Happy New Year Danny, stay in touch, Sean

[Roman]

This is a link to a man, without blinkered!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDZBJw7cV2U

[canuck 1]

So now you have a sean name as well....you are pathetic.

Have a 80 Chev that was bought new and spray foamed at the same time, still here for your inspection. have an 11 Ford same deal, come have a look. Waiting on a new Sprinter, it will get the same treatment.

The more you make up, the more you sound the same

[meanderingexplorers.com]

We used rigid closed-cell foam, Polyisocyanurate, because of its high R-value and foam sealant, for convenience, in between cracks. This turned out to be very labor intensive and next time we would use foam sealant for the whole thing. You can read the article on what we did here: https://meanderingexplorers.com/thermally-insulating-a-van/.

[Camper_Dan]

Greetings!

Boy, that's quite an insulation job!  I hope it works out well.  I will be looking forward to an update down the road.

My insulation job wasn't nearly as intense, I followed the directions by Bob Well's, and it was an absolute failure.  It helped a little for sound deadening, but in extreme hot or cold it was worthless.  The worst part was that it trapped moisture which resulted in rust and mold.

I wound up switching back to window vans, and just rely on heating, cooling, and ventilation to stay comfortable.  Carpet seems to help a lot with the cold floor issues.  I have the factory carpet with the factory insulation/sound proofing under it, and then use easily washable throw rugs over it.

So far the only DIY insulation jobs I've seen that didn't result in mold or moisture problems, was people who lived in dry desert type areas.  In moister areas, even many of the factory jobs don't seem to hold up well.  I would love to see a method that actually works long term in less than ideal conditions.  Hopefully yours will.

Cheers!